Ray Frankz

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Posts by Ray Frankz

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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  Ray Frankz

  And let's not get started on Judge Rutherford!

  Let me get my scotch and two cups. After that I'll go to give a speech about the preaching work that I don't do.

  
  

  
  
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  12

  The Biblical reasoning behind a judicial comitee?

  by CitizenofEarth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was wondering today what i would say if i ever were to be called to a judicial trial in the congregation, and my conclusion was that i didn't really have any biblical defense against it.

  so i was wondering what you guys would recommend.

  it seems far fetched to me that the bible condones a 1 vs 3 biased trial (where you already have been judged beforehand), instead of one where you have a unbiased judge, a defense and a prosecutor/accuser.

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  Ray Frankz

  You should argue that Jesus never set up a comitee procedure for dealing with sinners. Jesus told that things should be solved between the sinner and the victim, just in case the sinner didn't show regret the victim could call some others to testify he's trying to solve it, if it doesn't work the victim would tell the case to the congregation in order to back his next action that is restrict contact with the sinner. It's worth to notice that it wasn't all the congregation that was under the duty to restrict association with the sinner, but only the person affected by the sin. Mt 18:15-17

  Apostle Paul went all Rutherford and put add things as if what Jesus told wasn't enough. He said in 1 Corinthians to shun a person who holds the status of Christian and at the same time practice big sins. In this case any true Christian would not be willing to associate with such a hypocritical. 1 Cor 5: 9-13

  Even this more strict rule from Paul doesn't say anything about a judicial comitee. It says very well that what should guide the "disfellowshipping" of someone was each one conscience and love for the good.

  The judicial comitee is from the old testament, but since it isn't regarded in the new, it's logically because it doesn't apply to christians.
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  45

  Clapping and singing in Conventions... like the evangelicals??

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://www.facebook.com/traslapados/videos/1470101566382318/?hc_ref=otherwhat do you think of this video?.

  do you think they're imitating evangelicals?is this happening in other places?

  ?.

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  Ray Frankz

  Holy Shit! it's happening! and it's here in Brazil!! Totally sharing this video with my brothers and sisters and asking their opinion.
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  23

  The beard issue

  by Ray Frankz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my second topic here.

  sorry for this biiig post.

  i would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so.... well, being a ministerial servant, i knew the bad view the jw in general have towards beards.

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  Ray Frankz

  Hello again everyone. This is my second topic here. Sorry for this biiig post.

  I would like to tell you guys about one of the things that bothered me most, despite of being something quite simple, but since it affected me directly, so...

  Well, being a ministerial servant, I knew the bad view the JW in general have towards beards. However, convinced that it isn't unscriptural and neither bad in anyway, I started to wear a beard at the meetings.

  Of course I didn't left the "grooming" behind, so I used to keep my beard short and well cut. Since I didn't want to call too much attention to myself I decided that whenever I had a part to talk from the stage I would shave. Well, it happened for one and a half month when I got to know at the meeting that I was assigned to the final prayer. I was wearing my beard, but since during the prayer everybody is suposedly with the eyes closed there wouldn't be any problem. I did it. Next month I didn't get any part instead another prayer. Following the same logic I did it with my beard. Two weeks later, two elders called me to 'talk'. One elder, the elder's coordinator, is a recent one, not even 10 years of eldership, he has a nice relationship with me and wears a thick moustache. The other is one that hasn't too much teaching skills but spend some years supporting a small congregation alone, so he came back to mine with a strong air of authority and a noticeable thirst or more power in the body of elders. Well, the conversation:

  The one who is more close to me talked alone while the other only watched. He asked "what was happening?" since I was wearing a beard. I argued that isn't any wrongdoing but he told me to read an article about grooming. It's funny because I had read this article before deciding wearing a beard and didn't see anything condemning.

  After that, I sat down and wrote an article about how the beard ban isn't biblical and isn't a big deal after all. I printed and sent one copy to each elder in my congregation.

  One day they called me to talk about it. 5 elders were there, just not one who is my uncle (is married to my aunt actually). They made questions about what I had written, aparently to try to get me in my words since they didn't point anything clearly wrong in my article. During the talk (questioning), they changed their argument to say that the reunion was because I had made this a big deal when I sent the article to all the elders. (detail: I had shaved to this meeting) They even told me they decided to hold me from talks on the stage but as our conversation went well (and I agreed to shave, the reasons I will explain) they decided not to do that. Then this elder asked everyone else the opinion if they agreed to give me back my part on the stage. 4 said yes with no problem. The last one, the one who went to talk to me with the elder's coordinator at first, made a huge speech about how I should me more "humble" and highlighted that 'I was imperfect, so I would fail sometimes, and they (I think he meant himself) would be there to point it."

  Well the main reason I shaved was that I saw they would probably take my privilege of service and everybody would think I had fornicated or at least did something sexually immoral. (because 90% of the sins among JW has to do with sex). I think if I get out someday I want to do it for my own will and I want the people to know exactly why. So I thought that suffer this shame on me and my family wouldn't worth it, and following my owm argument to them I wanted to show them that it isn't a big deal. Different from them I showed that I could wear it or not and it wouldn't bother my relationship with God.

  Interestingly, after that I found a post on a ex JW website who had plenty of the arguments I wrote in my article.

  One of them we both pointed was the clear boycott that the WT itself do to beards. This movie of the 2017 convention put this very clear. On one scene the man wears a beard and is impolite and agressive. Next scene he start studying JW literature and shows up shaved, polite and mild tempered. His son has a facial hairstyle too. He mocks of his parents who are starting to like the JWs and don't want anything to it. some scenes after, he accepts to study and appears on the meaning smiley and shaved.

  Nothing new from the GB.

  The 'new light' I had this time, and I intend to put it in a next version of my article is that it isn't the beard that WT boycotts. I realized that the Tower also never shows in a good view the alchoolic drinks. Yes, they know it isn't forbidden by the Bible and put it clear, but they never show a witness drinking alchool and surely it speaks more bad than good about this act.

  My question is: Why, so, the witness througout my country make use (sometimes abuse) of alchool and doesn't bother with what is the WT, GB, and the people in general opinion (here in brazil most of the protestant churchs forbids the alchool, it even cause plenty of shock for people when they know we are allowed to drink) , since it is a conscience case while put the WT, GB and the totally unbased "popular opinion" ahead to force the men to shave?

  My answer: Because what counts in the WT isn't the Bible and even less the logic. It's the will of the authority. I truly believe that in 20 years beards will be allowed simply because this generation will be in the eldership.
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  11

  We are like pet dogs that run off with wild dogs...

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...and need a bullet to the head.

  my wife found a post on instagram where some jw nutter claims that either lett or morris said this in a talk.

  any confirmation or video of such?

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  Ray Frankz

  This isn't certainly the most nonsense thing that Lett would have said.
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  16

  July 7, 2017 Re: Needs in the Field—Training Others

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  july 7, 2017 to all field missionaries, special pioneers, temporary special pioneers and regular pioneers re: needs in the field—training others.

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  Ray Frankz

  the PAO program was discontinued when I was a regular Pioneer. We all thought it stopped because there were actually no improvement.
  
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  14

  Thought Bubbles Then & Now

  by steve2 in

  1. social
  2. humour

  my thought bubble in the 1980s:.

  "how can i engage with worldly people when they are just not interested in discussing these important topics as featured in the watchtower and awake?.

  my thought bubble in the 2010s:.

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  Ray Frankz

  thought bubble in 2010:

  These apostates are so arrogants and hate the JW for no reason.

  thought bubble in 2017:

  I'm afraid the JW find me here and hate me for no reason.
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  18

  Yup !

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  Ray Frankz

  9751? no, David Splane came close to predicting indirectly 2075, by suggesting 2 older then F. Franz overlappers. Now, that is what I call soon. For 1975 wt gave us 6 years notice, With the overlapping groups 40 years? wt is playing it safe

  Actually I think they could naturally have faced another big exit from the org. Because what they did was exactly what R Franz said they would do in In search of Christian Freedom. I bet they wanted to do it before but waited till brother Franz to die just to avoid admiting he was right to him. But what I understood of that bs explanation was they were giving around 30 years, what would mean about 2045, when most of the generation who waited for 2014 will be dead or old and the new one will easily swallow the "new explanation that according to crazy researchers, a generation takes 3 genrations because of reasons"
  
  
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  30

  Loyalty - Part of the New Personality (S-341a-18-E 5/17)

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  loyalty—part of the new personality (s-341a-18-e 5/17).

  note to the circuit overseer:.

  use this outline for the tuesday service talk from september 2017 through february 2018. you will need to prepare your own 30-minute service talk for use after the watchtower study.

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  Ray Frankz

  "Loyalty to Jehovah can be tested when a friend gets involved in wrongdoing that needs to be
  brought to the attention of the elders
  Never allow misguided loyalty to a friend to overshadow your loyalty to Jehovah
  Approach that friend, and urge him to report the matter to his parents or to the elders; tell him
  that if he does not do so within a reasonable period of time, you will (Pr 27:5; w91 6/15 21)"

  Interestingly, they stopped using the scripture they used to show to justify the "rat principle" Lev 5:1. In the 84' NT said

  ‘Now in case a soul+ sins in that he has heard public cursing*+ and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report+ it, then he must answer for his error.

  By this they said that it means if whenever we get to know about a sin (heard public cursing) we should report.

  However, in the 13' version this verse says:

  If someone* sins because he has heard a public call to testify*+ and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error.

  They actually made an improvement in this translation. It's clear now that the responsability to report the sin falls only on the person requested to do it by the authority about a specific sin he/she may know.

  When I saw that I said, wow, if they changed that it's signal they are willing to change the "rat policy".

  As this speech shows, I was wrong. This time they just ignore the scripture they used so much just because now this scripture doesn't fit with the "truth".
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  3

  Sir Anthony Buzzard clears up something that always baffled me about Jesus and the Spirit

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you have ever wondered why jesus is always kept at the sidelines by the governing body, then watch this video.. sir anthony buzzard clarify's my own personal doubts and has helped me see exactly what jesus role is alongside the holy spirit.

  for all christians searching for truth, this video is a must!.

  just a side note.

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  Ray Frankz

  Despite not watching the whole video ( but the part I saw I agree totally with you) I'd like to comment a great cultural/religious difference betwenn the christianity/protestantism in the USA and here in Brazil.

  Based on what I see on internet, there's plenty of high educated theologians around the USA, who spend time actually researching the bible and trying to bring something to light. So, I imagine that the JWs surely don't have a "monopoly" on Bible research among popular protestant religions there.

  Here in Brazil the protestant religions are so unscrupulous: they spend most of the time playing songs made from 'wordly' songs (some ones even with dirty lyrics), their shepperds speak agressively, and focus their speeches on "hallelujah Christ" and "Out Satan", they practicly extort the faithful ones, and don't take any action regarding big sins among their leadership. Interestingly, here the Catholic church is much more superior than them in a logistic way. So, comparing to them, the JW are kind of superior, and most of the "protestants" here (believe me) actually can be beaten easily in a biblical debate with a JW (I mean the ones from 2000' and back, this new generation is so poor of content as the people in general here).

  So, I think it's easier to see the JWs out of their santity halo there in the US than it is here in BR.